10 Questions with Perry Michael Simon
AllAccess.com continues to offer breaking news and information about both radio and the music industry. Much of the credit for their success belongs to Perry Michael Simon, VP and News-Talk-Sports editor for the online publication. He provides wonderful insights with "The Letter," his weekly offering for news and information programmers and talent.
One of their most popular features is "10 Questions With." So I decided to turn the table on Mr. Simon and get some information about him, as well as get his insights about what's going on with radio now and in the future:
1. First, please provide a short bio of Perry Michael Simon – birthplace, where you consider hometown, anything interesting about your education, and a brief summary of your career for those not familiar with you.
Born and raised in New Jersey; I don’t really think of one place as my hometown, but my years living near Philadelphia were at about the right time for it to earn that title (I still root for Philly sports teams, have many friends in the area, and retain a craving for cheesesteaks and Wawa as well as a hint of The Accent, so I guess that counts). I don’t know that there’s anything interesting about my education – I graduated Haverford College, where Judd Nelson was in my class briefly and which got a shout out in “Mare of Easttown,” and Villanova Law School, where nothing at all interesting happened but means I can take personal pride in three NCAA men’s basketball championships, with which I had nothing to do.
My career, abbreviated: Program Director at New Jersey 101.5 (Walter Sabo’s invention, which I helped launch) and KLSX in Los Angeles and Operations Manager and weekend public affairs host at Y-107 in Los Angeles. Also spent 6 years at Nerdist Industries, and a year as a producer at the very odd Comedy World Radio Network. I joined All Access in 1997 and was named Editor/News-Talk-Sports in 1999 and a VP in 2011. I don’t remember when I started my column, but it’s been going for a long time now. I did other stuff, mostly in the media, but I’ve forgotten most of it.
2. It’s obvious to me you’re a fan of radio (so am I). Yet we’re being told repeatedly the medium is doomed, particularly with Millennials and Generation Z. I can see it changing, perhaps somewhat dramatically, but still being of value. What’s your response to those unfamiliar with your previous work?
There’s value in a ubiquitous technology that still has a sizable audience. That being said, the value will continue to diminish as younger generations gravitate to other platforms and those platforms become easier to use in cars. At that point, radio’s future will depend on offering things other platforms can’t or won’t. There are some strategic advantages the industry can stress: ease of use, massive installed base of receivers (in cars, at least), localism. The key, though, is personality. All of the other advantages can be matched or beaten by someone else at some point, but unique, strong, unduplicatable personality – star power – is what radio can do to be most relevant. It’s done that before. Whether it can do that when today’s stars are gravitating to other platforms like YouTube, TikTok, and podcasts, I don’t know, but it needs to try.
3. Los Angeles has a reputation of being a particularly interesting – and sometimes quirky – market for radio. Do you agree with this statement? How is L.A. different / similar to other major markets?
This market had, and has, some great talent and memorable stations, and it’s helped by both the size of the market – great talent aspires to reach the biggest stages – and the proximity to TV and radio production. But L.A. isn’t necessarily quirkier or better than other major markets. I might make an exception for the early KROQ, which you can argue was both unique in the country and particularly L.A., but for the most part, L.A.’s radio history, interesting as it may be, isn’t necessarily better than New York’s, or Chicago’s, or several other markets. As much as I admit to sometimes indulging in a little nostalgia, one of radio’s biggest problems over the years has been that misty-eyed backwards concentration, the pining for the Good Ol’ Days. It’s 2021. Things are different now. A fast-talking top 40 jock hitting the post with a witty one-liner isn’t relevant anymore. You can (and should) celebrate the great talents of yesteryear, but Boss Radio (and Musicradio 77 WABC, and Super CFL, and any number of other legendary stations of the past) ain’t coming back.
https://www.journalism.org/chart/most-listened-to-radio-formats/
4. You often call for radio to not rely on the past but to think creatively. The same issue was raised in the 1980s, when radio was accused of playing it “safe” with little innovation. Are we seeing the past repeat itself, or how is it different this time?
There hasn’t been a truly innovative radio format developed in memory. Ask yourself: If you took any radio station or format or show on the dial today and dropped it onto a radio in 1990, would anyone be blown away by how different it is? I understand corporate reticence to take chances, but most companies interested in actual growth do R&D to create and develop new products. Radio doesn’t, and starting a podcast division doesn’t count when the actual programming on your core product hasn’t changed a bit for 30 years or more.
KFI is among a handful of AM stations that will survive the AM apocalypse at least for a few years, and it’s because a) it’s a very well-programmed, entertaining station with heritage and a reputation for being a go-to when anything is happening in the news, and b) it’s a strong signal low on the dial. Most markets have only one or two AMs in that position. L.A. has a handful of AM signals that truly cover the market, but the rest of the dial is not going to be competitive in the long term. Things like all-digital operation are Band-Aids when the patient is bleeding out. Beyond the strongest players, AM will continue to evolve into a place for niches – religion, foreign language, brokered talk. Whatever pays the light bill. There’s no growth potential, but superserving a niche or brokering out the time might be the only way to go. I don’t expect KFI or KNX to disappear any time soon, but they’re exceptions.
Podcasts take time spent listening away from radio the way talking to a friend, or taking a bathroom break, or eating a meal take time away from radio. Everything competes for your time; if radio's product is audio entertainment, then it should be producing it for every way the audience consumes audio entertainment. It's not a choice anymore. You have to be where your intended audience has gone, which is why you stream and why you need to produce podcasts. How you monetize it is another matter, but you go where your audience is, and you go where that audience is growing.
Podcasts can enhance broadcast in a couple of ways, one in providing content you can't or won't put on the air -- additional material from your show hosts, or in-depth reporting you can't spend as much time with on the air, or, really, whatever good ideas you have -- and two, if audience measurement accurately compiles all listening to radio content, whether over the air, streaming, or via podcasts, into a combined, salable number acceptable to agencies. Again, though, the issue isn't "enhancement" as much as it is "the audience for radio is spending less time with radio and more with podcasts and we'd better find a way to reach them where they are."
Regarding Amazon and Netflix, I don’t know if those are necessarily bellwethers. A lot of companies and investors have put money into the medium. I think it’s just as significant that good content from an independent producer can be as successful or more so than something from a well-funded company. That hasn’t changed. What HAS changed is that some independents like Joe Rogan have found large companies willing to hand them a lot of money for their content.
The major group owners may change hands, file Chapter 11 (again), or declare themselves “digital,” but as long as investors don’t insist on selling them off – and in this market, they’d have to take a massive loss on their investment – I don’t expect much change. You might see some stations or clusters go to local ownership, but there aren’t many buyers out there – it’s hard to get people to buy anything that doesn’t show a potential for real growth. That’s not to say that a local owner couldn’t do a better job, but nobody out there wants to either buy at the prices being asked or sell at a major loss, so what you see is pretty close to what you’re going to get. It should also be noted that local ownership doesn’t always translate into great radio, and there are chain-owned stations which are exemplary. It’s more complicated than “big company bad, little guy good.”
There are too many factors involved to explain that. There’s heritage – in some markets, like San Francisco or Boston, the main public stations are long-standing institutions, but KPCC and KCRW have only more recently gotten traction. There’s signal – neither KPCC or KCRW are at par with the main commercial competition. There’s the division of the NPR audience between two stations (though that’s true in other markets like Boston as well). There’s imprecise measurement. There’s competition – a LOT of signals on the L.A. dial. And there’s the I-don’t-really-know factor. That’s probably the most important one.
Dominique DiPrima
9. In a similar vein, there are two commercial stations – KMZT and KBLA – that are counting on listener support. Will this be the future for non-mainstream formats?
It’s an option, with which some podcasts have had some success (Patreon). But they’ll be competing with public radio for listener donations, and I don’t know if, say, a Classical format on a commercial AM is likely to draw donations when there’s KUSC on FM already. It just feels unseemly for a commercial operator to ask for handouts, and I’m not sure why I’d donate to KBLA to hear progressive talk when I can find plenty of that on podcasts for free. But whatever you gotta do to pay the electric bill, I guess.
10. Finally, let’s go back to Perry Michael Simon. What stories will you be telling ten years from now? Twenty years from now?
Dunno. I’ll be happy to be alive ten or twenty years from now. Maybe I’ll come up with some stories by then.
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